I disagree, I think they're hilarious. The joke is on the behaviour for being racist, but I'm not sure that would fly these days. Much as when Netflix removed a bunch of episodes of shows that showed blackface, even when the point was to criticise.
Ahh I see - I should rewatch them. Should've guessed that with M&W the intention is to poke fun at attitudes around the concept rather than just going "Isn't this funny?"
I remember they briefly took down the episode of Peep Show where Nancy makes Jez have sex with her in blackface too, which I also thought was missing the point - the entire purpose of that joke is the discomfort around somebody asking you to do something as unacceptable as that, and Jez's fecklessness in just going along with it.
But again, it's a joke that was funny within the cultural context at the time. People WERE still doing blackface on TV on the regs (Boosh, Little Britain etc), so it's within the remit of a smarter show to explore the comedy in how feel people about that, and what we do with our feelings of discomfort around it. Today it's much more culturally embedded that blackface is unacceptable, so there's less need for a show to engage with it to find comedy, even if the intention was to make fun of racist attitudes.
That's what I mean, I think - even when a joke is well-intentioned and intelligent, culture can still move in a way that means that joke will no longer be received in the right way, but that's no bad thing. I doubt Jesse Armstrong and Sam Bain regret that joke in Peep Show, but I'm also sure they wouldn't write it now. They'd be too busy writing other jokes that intelligently make fun of where we've got to in the present. Those who complain about how you "can't say X any more" are basically just refusing to do the actually quite rewarding work of engaging with how to be a functioning member of society, and evolving with it.
First of all, excellent news that the Mitchell & Webb Show is back! I think the sketch show renaissance was on my 2025 bingo card so someone owes me a fiver. Secondly, this was all so well put. It does tend to be people who don’t engage much with the comedy world who seem to be so nostalgic about not just certain shows, but specific jokes that don’t get told any more. I’d be curious to know whether any of these people notice the lack of racism/homophobia/sexism in modern programming that they enjoy, or have they genuinely not laughed since the wokerati #cancelled Christmas?
Your general point is spot on about context, about changing society. There's all sorts of comedy that reflects its era. Blazing Saddles is the other one that often gets mentioned, but Blazing Saddles comes from the era of really bad race relations in the USA at the time. It's not perfect now, but no-one would make it today.
Outside of race or sexual politics, there are things like how people attitudes changed towards bank robbers, that the public used to see them as folk heroes. It's why the original Thomas Crown Affair, he robs banks but it was changed to art in the remake. You wouldn't be able to make a kids show with the death toll of Joe 90, let alone the whole thing of a dad implanting memories in his son.
Chocolate cake, chocolate cake, have ye any nuts?
As a potential example of Mitchell and Webb you "couldn't make today", there's the blackface sketch. Also the "unga bunga" sketch.
Not rewatched it in years, so I couldn't remember these, but yeah they don't sound great.
I disagree, I think they're hilarious. The joke is on the behaviour for being racist, but I'm not sure that would fly these days. Much as when Netflix removed a bunch of episodes of shows that showed blackface, even when the point was to criticise.
Ahh I see - I should rewatch them. Should've guessed that with M&W the intention is to poke fun at attitudes around the concept rather than just going "Isn't this funny?"
I remember they briefly took down the episode of Peep Show where Nancy makes Jez have sex with her in blackface too, which I also thought was missing the point - the entire purpose of that joke is the discomfort around somebody asking you to do something as unacceptable as that, and Jez's fecklessness in just going along with it.
But again, it's a joke that was funny within the cultural context at the time. People WERE still doing blackface on TV on the regs (Boosh, Little Britain etc), so it's within the remit of a smarter show to explore the comedy in how feel people about that, and what we do with our feelings of discomfort around it. Today it's much more culturally embedded that blackface is unacceptable, so there's less need for a show to engage with it to find comedy, even if the intention was to make fun of racist attitudes.
That's what I mean, I think - even when a joke is well-intentioned and intelligent, culture can still move in a way that means that joke will no longer be received in the right way, but that's no bad thing. I doubt Jesse Armstrong and Sam Bain regret that joke in Peep Show, but I'm also sure they wouldn't write it now. They'd be too busy writing other jokes that intelligently make fun of where we've got to in the present. Those who complain about how you "can't say X any more" are basically just refusing to do the actually quite rewarding work of engaging with how to be a functioning member of society, and evolving with it.
First of all, excellent news that the Mitchell & Webb Show is back! I think the sketch show renaissance was on my 2025 bingo card so someone owes me a fiver. Secondly, this was all so well put. It does tend to be people who don’t engage much with the comedy world who seem to be so nostalgic about not just certain shows, but specific jokes that don’t get told any more. I’d be curious to know whether any of these people notice the lack of racism/homophobia/sexism in modern programming that they enjoy, or have they genuinely not laughed since the wokerati #cancelled Christmas?
Your general point is spot on about context, about changing society. There's all sorts of comedy that reflects its era. Blazing Saddles is the other one that often gets mentioned, but Blazing Saddles comes from the era of really bad race relations in the USA at the time. It's not perfect now, but no-one would make it today.
Outside of race or sexual politics, there are things like how people attitudes changed towards bank robbers, that the public used to see them as folk heroes. It's why the original Thomas Crown Affair, he robs banks but it was changed to art in the remake. You wouldn't be able to make a kids show with the death toll of Joe 90, let alone the whole thing of a dad implanting memories in his son.